Gavin Newsom appeared to backtrack on inflammatory rhetoric from his own press team during a tense interview with conservative commentator Ben Shapiro on Thursday.
The California Governor was grilled by Sharpio on his own podcast “This is Gavin Newsom” in an exchange in which the two clashed over immigration enforcement, political rhetoric and gender identity.
One of the biggest flashpoints came when the rumored presidential hopeful was confronted by Shapiro about the language his own office used about the fatal shooting of Renee Good by an ICE officer in Minneapolis, which they called an act of “state-sponsored terrorism.”
The incident has sparked national controversy and led to furious debate about law enforcement tactics and rhetoric surrounding federal immigration authorities.
“Your press office tweeted out that it was state-sponsored terrorism,” Shapiro said, before pushing back on the characterization of federal agents.
“Our ICE officers obviously are not terrorists,” Shapiro added.
“Yeah, I think that’s fair,” Newsom agreed. The governor also said he “disagreed” that ICE should be abolished.
The moment quickly went viral, with critics seizing on the exchange as evidence the governor was at odds with messaging coming from his own communications team.
The discussion later turned to education and gender identity, where Shapiro repeatedly pressed Newsom on whether he believes biological sex can be changed and whether children should be taught otherwise in public schools.
“There are certainly cases in which kids are being socially transitioned at school without parents knowing about it,” Shapiro said. “The fundamental question… is whether boys can become girls.”
Newsom struggled to give a direct answer, “Yeah… well, I think… for the grace of God… yeah.”
Shapiro then asked why the question was so difficult to answer.
“We’re talking about so few people,” Newsom said, adding that the issue was surrounded by “so much hate, and bigotry, so much condemnation.”
Shapiro rejected that framing, arguing that his position was neither hateful nor discriminatory.
“It is not an act of bigotry to say that a boy cannot become a girl, nor should my children be taught in K-12 public schools that a boy can become a girl,” he said. “That’s not an act of bigotry; that’s an act of rationality and biological simplicity.”
Despite repeated follow-ups, Newsom declined to give a clear yes-or-no answer, returning instead to vague language.
Newsom also squirmed when Shapiro praised President Trump as the greatest foreign policy president in his lifetime and demanded to know why he wouldn’t “radically” reduce income tax for Californians.
Shapiro described the rhetoric from Newsom that Trump would try to run again in 2028 as dangerous and claimed he didn’t really believe it. But Newsom maintained he did.
